Crap Is King


At 12:29:05 Server Time on November 29, 2014, I observed the NavyField login server as down. This was thirty-one minutes prior to a scheduled Harbor Assault between Russian Alliance (attacking) and Flota Gallega (defending). I cannot expect anybody to know anything about login issues earlier than that, but I have great confidence in knowing that many people would have begun noticing in the following minutes. Upon being unable to login, whether they had been in-game in the previous hour or whether they were just showing up for the day, fleet members would quickly become aware that new connections to the NF server would not be possible. The server itself remained up.

Once the HA start time had passed, reports came to me that Russian Alliance had numbers beyond the ability to fill one room, and that in logged accounts, Flota Gallega was severely handicapped. No information about the physical progress of the Harbor Assault was given to me. I was not on the server, and making decreasingly frequent attempts to get back on.

It was 13:51 when I, back on Enterprise, saw the game clock and the London HA tiles. This was within no more than two minutes of the word coming to me that the server login issues had been resolved. What I saw at London was twenty-four tiles taken by Russian Alliance, the harbor itself still belonging to Flota Gallega, and no battle setting nor in progress on FG’s lone tile. I beat you all to it when I said verbally, “RA can do that to FG, but RA didn’t legitimately do that to FG.”

This could have passed quietly like an Armored Angels defense defeat where nobody is allowed to say a word, but let’s be happy that it didn’t. The long Thanksgiving weekend had already provided an armload of enjoyment; this year I’m thankful for RA jackasses and victimized FG folk. Though I haven’t been through the entire thread and will see many things for the first time right now, I know there has to be enough here to shape my opinions for years to come.

I expect great difficulty plowing through not knowing to which fleet every one of these players may belong; even worse might be poor translations into English due to the main characters here being Russian and . . . miscellaneous. The thread goes up at 14:05; I believe this is the exact time that I see that the HA is done, which means I could have turned my head ten seconds or three minutes after the fact. The screenshot shows a message I myself did not receive upon attempted logins in the previous hour and a half, but similar to those that had been encountered by some who had spoken with me. He says it’s now been two hours of being unable to log in; an embellishment if considered server-side, but he may have had more problems.

The first reply is the expected pile-on from what I presume is a fleet member, claiming the harbor had been taken without defenders. The addition I find interesting is the statement that there was some type of announcement in-game, suggesting to me that this fellow either knew from having seen it or from having been told, or having experienced it through having been kicked . . . I don’t know. To this moment I have seen no screenshots of the announcement at the time in question.

There’s no way I can comment on everything here, but I suspect there are accusations and generalizations that can be analyzed later. Cadam007 of crap KT fame makes the first gross misstep here – one that I expect will be repeated more than a few times. The great mistake is to spread the effects of the problem evenly across the board: because one fleet is disadvantaged in a way that is out of their control, the other must be to the same precise degree, and therefore a fair fight proceeds from it. Good day to you, cena. It’s good to see that Knights Templar, as weak as ever, maintains players with a moral standard that promotes taking a harbor while the defending fleet is scrambling to get online because of some ninety minutes of server issues – thirty before and around sixty DURING the actual HA. And I beat you to it: they could have, but they should not have.

Norm’s observation is a quick one; though the thread develops slowly, in less than fifty minutes he has either seen the harbor production or has seen the second RN rental tier (which takes 14-15 days of investment). RA was able to get across the map in the harbor tile with marines or airlift in little more than ten minutes. Possible, yes, but damn telling. I agree minimally with what charizard97 has to say in that some of this is lain at SDE’s door. The overpowering stench of this, however, is RA.

BAMF’s attacks at Baltiysk are worth bringing up, but let them not be over-sold as character killers. De-sync’s are likely in most every HA. This is a sad expectation most active fleets have been forced to accept. With the heavyweight battles, the problem isn’t always a de-sync. It has been observed that BAMF occasionally lacks the ability to close out battles even before de-sync fretting takes hold. This plays into RA’s historical strength as being great as a team on the defending side.

But let’s just say that BAMF has one or two instances where their point here is valid, because face it, they do. What say you, Russian Alliance?

Why, Flota Gallega, all you had to do was contact somebody. And the stupidity begins. The first RA person to speak up states that he and “many” others were able to log in about five minutes prior to the start of the HA. You have got to be joking. No, not about your claim, which I’m going to choose to believe, but that you think five minutes of prep time is sufficient, ESPECIALLY after what you see.

Two tiles, I assume they are the first two up the middle, fall quickly, as a hard charging Russian Alliance is used to; 5-8 minutes each. *Giggle.* “Then there was a single BB defending preharbor tile.” Gun is smoking, and then the rapid degeneration of the story . . . Only at this point do you feign to start caring. Only at this point do you blame FG for not contacting you, and only at this point do YOU ask how many FG had. Throw the unnamed human shield in front of you – “write to our diplomat” – and walk away with one of the greatest stupid parting shots of all time: “If any of you think you’re so good, let’s do a fleet battle.”

Little more is needed to prove that you don’t get it; fortunately there are nine pages of this thread that I haven’t really checked out yet. Okay, sure, comparisons to de-sync’s are imperfect here. De-sync’s are frequently discovered late and can be hard as hell to spot in the first place, but the right thing to do is to abort and make another effort to do it cleanly. In the case of a mass crash or obvious lack of defenders because the opposing fleet can clearly not connect or maintain connection – do you just blame the guy who hosted “without command” or the 25 players (your own number) who are all complicit? Good day to you, dallion.

But that fleet battle rip . . . I’m actually trying to think of a comparison that would be fair . . . it boggles the mind. “We beat you unfairly; we now challenge you to beat us in a totally different arena.” Idiot! You detail for us your recollections on the numbers in the key rooms and this is neither rocket science nor brain surgery. Surely Russian Alliance, *wink wink*, a fleet of great standing and experience, *wink wink*, understands that NF is not the most stable game, *wink wink*, and that players will often crash, *wink wink*, or otherwise have untimely connection problems, *wink wink.* Oh no, there was an event running and it looked like they gave up. Congratulations. You just made any argument against Russian Alliance bulletproof and every topical insult against Russian Alliance justified. All that, and then you add that, having nobody defending the harbor tile, you couldn’t be certain that FG made any attempts at contact.

Three battles prior to HT, and twenty-one other tiles taken prior to that HT going up. Yeah, you could have, but you shouldn’t have. The next guy starts where the first one left off, and it reads heavily like your perceptions of the Baltiysk HA (also against FG) dictated your actions on London. I saw absolutely none of that HA and cannot comment on your statements that lean toward an accusation of time wasting. But moving to your next point (I think you’ve switched HA’s now), what’s this? – “Same fleet was simply crashed in two consiquent battles at port direction” – does logical comprehension rise this far over the heads of Russian Alliance? Thusly you confirm the single ship in the tile in front of the harbor, and I leap to conclude that your perception was the same as Baltiysk: FG lost hope.

And enough of what normpearii says is validated by you. A second harbor tile, possibly one on each side of a server restart. Your timeline lacks a little (you had all the tiles before going into the harbor to take it), but it doesn’t matter. What you say next is enough to propel this a long way forward.

Russian Alliance > You. No suspicion is reasonable. No claim otherwise is accurate. RA SS skill is undisputable. Oh, sorry, I’m not buying that either. It is disputed. I dispute it myself. Your experiences in disputation have not seen how much I dispute this. And then there’s more. You claim and accept that the twice nerfing of subs in HA’s is because of RA’s awesomeness, and the tragic correction of crit dive just compounds further affliction. Swing your dicks and hang your hats on that? Subs are everything for Russian Alliance? This tells me a lot about your fleet. Disputed! Disputed!

But don’t worry, exploiter whatzup is there at your backs, and I offer the same to him as I have already done to Russian Alliance. How does it feel?

I approve of x_men’s and ericidle’s concepts of reality. The event was running, but HA fleets are bound to the HA and nothing else until it is concluded. Russian Alliance has already admitted plenty of knowledge about the login problems they experienced and the clear affects it had on Flota Gallega. I just don’t know if I should break out into my next big point or if I should wait for another RA guy on a different page to do it for me.

I will readily take everything from any individual RA player and place it upon their fleet (due to the language barrier) but I will not do the same for BAMF, as I can see this has some of them disappointed. That is the rivalry that is clearly tops in NF at this time, so when angry BAMF man starts swinging, I’ll leave it as him doing it and not his fleet. True, BAMF has seemed to have more success in attacks against the tougher to reach Baltiysk corner than Russian Alliance has in hitting the back wall at Hamburg. A lot of that is based on the makeup of both fleets.

And in walks piskopatxx. And he cranks up the same shit yet again. FG isn’t good enough to attack us. Oh, I’m sorry, do you own a harbor? Then shut up and defend the harbor. And the London RA attack? What’s this? You couldn’t get online either, AND YOU FAULT FLOTA GALLEGA FOR HAVING NOBODY ONLINE? So a bit of Russian logic here (I’m pretty sure this piece of shit isn’t Russian, I’m just in the mood for some sweeping generalizations): “get stronger and then try to attack us. if you cant beat us = u sucks!” Therefore, if Russian Alliance is the best, and nobody can beat them, then everybody sucks. Using this as a template, we can all just go home knowing that we’re wasting our time at midnight on Monday when we declare on an RA harbor. Defending is easier than attacking. So, uh, who’s that who beat you out of Taranto a few weeks ago?

So pull your fucking heads out of your asses already. Inverted logic thusly states that if RA plays a damn fine defense, but somebody beats them, then that attacker no longer sucks AND that attacker can also berate Russian Alliance for sucking. This is your precedent, RA. At least when BAMF asks for a Hamburg fight, it’s a little more gracious than an invitation to a “you suck” festival.

To this month, I’ve played this game heavily for nine years. Two days ago, on Tuesday, like a lot of people, I played GBII for the purpose of the event. And people suck. People suck really bad. It’s physically painful – at times I ache seeing how bad people are at this game. I see so very many flaws that stem from a lack of effort and a lack of recognition of actions’ consequences. From this trash bin I have heard that Russian Alliance, well, I’ve heard that they must hack. I’ve heard they are cheats, I’ve heard that they AB, and I’ve heard that some things are just too much to be explained away by the use of that elusive word: “skill.” Hacking, I don’t know. Exploits, yes, for certain. AB? Rampant. But do I believe all the shouters who otherwise have no idea what is going on in a battle room they’re playing when they pop off their accusations? Hell no.

But Russian Alliance, this is where you are. I never heard great moans of Jedi “exploiting” and I never heard unending complaints of Black Sun “hacking” – but with Russian Alliance, it’s the rule, not the exception. Even if it’s true 5% of the time and not 95% of the time, it says something. I’m not trying to bargain with cheaters here, but I will lament the direction of Russian Alliance since the formation of Nebraska. Formerly small and efficient and long on skill, recruitment standards are laughable and the known lengths you will go – we’ve seen them in barely four pages of one forum thread – to defend the dubious shortcomings that are jumping up and down and waving their arms in front of everybody . . . all of this has to say something to you.

Oh great, another head up another ass, as kiraniv whips out the NF fleet ranking page and I’m laughing so hard I can’t finish my though or this sentence properly. Dumbass, if you don’t get it yet, here it is: de-sync’s aren’t caused by the “server administration,” the accusation is that your fleet, Russian Alliance, proudly exploits specific flaws in the game code, flaws that you yourselves have tested in battles via trial and error, and that these have a distinct capability to wreck battles. I’ll leave that open for the obvious continuation of the discussion. You’ve got more I want to refute. That 3AM is bad for RA, and therefore you struggle at Hamburg. Think about it. There are these things called time zones. Maybe, just maybe, BAMF (or CHNB, AA, BS, BAP) is hampered by 10AM Server being a bad time for them. Maybe, just maybe, Baltiysk time is a weak time, sure not on the level of Toulon or Taranto, but think about it.

Piskopatxx, read the above paragraph again. If you speak for Russian Alliance I would expect even they to mutilate you based on how foolish you’re being, which is back to the point I made in the paragraph before that one. So read that one too. But your blinders are on so tightly we should probably just call you Red Sky’s finest. Oh the restraint it is taking because I know what awaits me on page 8.

Get your screenshot buttons ready: I agree with cracko. Let me just, ahem, mention again that I called it first: RA could have, but RA shouldn’t have. The only problem I think I’ve got here is cracko possibly trying to minimalize a vague “some” accusations of cheating other doings. Piseog, on the other hand, is living in a freaking fantasy world where TNF is on the ball, quick, and . . . uh, frequently in the right? You’ve really got to wonder where some of these people get their sense of fair play. Oh wait, it’s a game. Fair play doesn’t count for shit.

Cadam007’s back! NUMBERS ARE EVERYTHING. HE’S IN KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. You want to know how delusional and out of touch this guy is? “Accuse RA of hacking all you want but I doubt theyd have any trouble taking on ANY fleet besides BAMF, AA and CHNB.” THIS JUST IN: BAMF STANDS SIDE BY SIDE WITH ARMORED ANGELS AND THE CHINESE BRUTHAHOOD. Something like four times (going back to his prior post) he says that RA is better than FG, therefore RA is justified in taking the harbor from FG by whatever means, but he closes out by saying “shame on you RA.” It’s almost like he eventually, and reluctantly, goes along with the crowd of “dense mofos” that he insults only a few words later. Knights Templar: recruiting standards as rigid as, well, Russian Alliance, apparently.

Okay, okay, so I am going to go forward like I think lost94 is in Russian Alliance, but he’s not showing in the rankings and I can’t remember for certain. Stereotypes go both ways, buddy. I was born in the first half of the 1980’s and at no point, never, ever, was I indoctrinated with any anti-Russian sentiment. In fact, in public school through 8th grade, world history only touched on the huge things of the 20th century: WW1 and WW2. I hardly knew Russia had any other history at all prior to becoming an amateur film buff in the summer of 2000; my high school world history class in 10th grade didn’t even get us to the American Revolution and I am still pissed off that Miss J. lost my hilarious one-page essay on Buddhism. The Cold War? Ancient. Kennedy and Khrushchev? Castro’s fault. Maybe this was something for folk older than I but Russia, to me? Just another big country, lots of people; but the so-called evils of their politics has nothing to do with the people of today. (Unrelated to this thread, I have been told at this moment that lost94 is identifying himself as an RA diplomat.)

So, after that great mass of non-necessity, all I can say is to GET YOUR HEAD AROUND THE POINT. No, from what I said earlier about people in-game and the aching stupidity that penetrates the game, I wouldn’t want you to think too seriously about it. What you reference as RA’s HA motives are outdated. This may be the RA you joined and it may be the RA you played with for a time. This is no longer the RA that exists here going in to 2015. You’ve got to, you’ve just got to see that this is the break point for a lot of people; though this transgression was not a hack, what it represents is enough to bring a lot of people out in order to question what they’ve been told. Let me ask you this: do you believe Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated John F. Kennedy?

The irony is indeed strong when painlesskiss steps in with his bit. Honor decency, and fair play are on his mind now, but the painlesskiss I will always remember is the one who was prepared to take a harbor as the solo desync’d party because of something like “being tired of this.” A dozen and a half screaming BAMF voices later, he withheld. Either you hold yourself to standards every time or you don’t. Limited exceptions apply, which I’ve detailed before. Good day to you, nmac.

SSquadleader gets it, osn3179 does not. There is no point in blowing down a harbor when the power is yours to cancel it and roll back into the triple XP that was going down that day. There is no point if in your vast Russian superiority, you can take a harbor just to walk away from it the next week (which is what happens in probably 80+% of RA’s second harbors). But alas, if somebody beats you on that second harbor, you sucks! There is no point in defending yourselves against the hack accusations when the hack accusations are secondary. So, basically, this superior Soviet strategy is to take London while you are completely aware that there are server login issues in progress, and then invite people to prove they are better than you by attacking Baltiysk. To quote an unnamed Futurama character: “I hope that in time you’ll realize what an idiot you’ve been.” I wouldn’t count on that.

Of the many times the entire story has been summed up in one or two lines, kiraniv delivers another golden one. “FG interrupted their HA at Baltiysky just two hours before (HD at London) as they have no chance to win.” Good for them. Really, if they expended their resources and felt like their own time was wasted, I applaud the move. The way I see it, RA, the natural way of turning this around during your subsequent attack is to not exploit something that is not FG’s fault: the inability to log new or crashed people into the game. But instead, your conclusion and action lacks all displays of class. “They stoped defence in London after two defeats of their main forces in 15 minutes. From my point of veiw it was absolutely logically that FG commanders decided to participate in the event rather then to waiste time in hopeless HD.”

From my point of view, Russian Alliance leadership is hypocritical and exploitative. I have stated before that periodic attempts to log myself in were unsuccessful for 51 minutes following the start of the HA. You guys are telling me that RA could just hop off and on without any struggle? Blaming it on FG for not communicating with you when nobody at RA seems to want to step up to say which non-shitbag is the one that’s supposed to handle HA diplomacy? Seems to me like it would be a waste of time talking with any of you who have spouted off on the forums thus far. A few posts later you put yourself among the NF worst of all-time. “And do not dilute the drama on the forum due to the fact that you have lost the harbor through the fault of SDE.” No, Flota Gallega lost the harbor through the fault of Russian Alliance not giving a fuck about community standards. It’s hard to believe just how much attempted plausible deniability is going on around here! Good day to you, vick11.

The continuation of this is transitioning from accusations to lies, and fortunately there is enough out there to expose RA’s attempts at covering their balls. The fact that FG had low numbers at Baltiysk is irrelevant, given both that they were the attacker who (reportedly) canceled when they became a burden to even themselves and also because it’s a totally different harbor fight. Entirely irrelevant. If FG also has low numbers at London, and the crash as RA reports it may have affected 5-10 players, WELL THAT’S A BIG FUCKING DEAL, YOU KNOW? The potential to quickly reconnect to the server is very much in question, so you’re relying on FG to contact you. And now the report comes in that your diplomat wasn’t even around (he remains anonymous), and based on what we’ve seen from too many of your members in this thread alone, I wouldn’t trust a damn one of them to relay a message to officers if it has anything to do with encouraging fair play. Russian Alliance, you could hardly have botched this any worse.

Given all that’s been blown out here, I wouldn’t fault FG for not wanting to have any dealings with RA in the future, so I would recommend that RA take their offers of diplomacy and shove them up their collective ass. Experienced players in this game are prone to getting dicked around by a distinct lack of oversight. All that we have is the community self-policing. TNF can and do whatever they want to protect themselves and SDE, but even they know that their realm of care has to stop short of fleets and fleet relations; this is not always how it has been but this is the way it has become. This is why dallion, nmac, and cena (and others) get rightly torched every time they give their nation’s particular gesture of disdain to either the community or an opposing fleet, usually involving Harbor Assault. This is why vick’s maneuvering to observe HA’s remains a joke almost two years later. Russian Alliance, you are the prime beneficiary of a stagnant system but you still seem aloof to recognize that this is not a good thing! Look beyond the sub cap in HA. Look beyond all the supposedly crippling nerfs to your staple class. Look forward to an exploit or two being removed and how you will handle it. Prepare to look back to days like Saturday where your true ways are exposed by no one but yourselves.

But if all you can do is blame SDE, thanks for making it even easier for me to gather all this together. RA uses too many subs in harbor? It destroyed the purpose of BB’s in HA. Not a Russian Alliance problem. RA uses too much smoke in harbor? SMOKE IS NOT A SKILL. Not a Russian Alliance problem, though we know you want it to be. RA subs are too strong? I have no answer for this because I don’t know when or why it was done, but it affects all subs the same way, I suspect. Therefore, not a Russian Alliance problem. RA uses too many bombers and mines in the harbor? If you could reduce the possibility of de-sync’s and improve server stability in the process, would you do it? In general, would you rather utilize compounding faults in the code to your advantage, or would you desire to see them fixed?

“3 minutes before the start of the attack on the harbor of London 90% of our players could not get into the game and did not know whether the attack will take place on the harbor at all. The fact that our players were able to 2 minutes into the game, and the FG is not – this is a problem SDE.” GUN = SMOKING. And Russian Alliance = smoking something, too. All you want is absolution and you’d say anything to get it. Fortunately for the rest of us, you continue saying the wrong thing. “If FG is so important was this game they could find a way to contact us and explain the problem, I’m sure our leaders would have been no problem to cancel the attack London.” How easily I can turn that around. If it was so important for RA to win this battle, they’d have no problem stomping on a FG who clearly is only not online because they can’t get online, and the RA leaders insist that they have to be told this in order to recognize this. Why should anybody within the community trust them?

PAGE EIGHT!

You consider it was a fair way of disputing? Next time attach screen of dirty underpants. – kiraniv

Believe me, I had no idea anything like this existed anywhere else, so when I clicked to check the link from the BAMF website earlier, I was a shade disappointed while being hugely excited. These screenshots are from July 29th of this year, which if I remember right, is some four months after the ones posted by the BAMF dude. I will include a brief recollection of the scene:

Started the game going south in my P69AV. Killed some TB’s with my first flight, chased some DB’s too far north with my second flight, then read some chat. (Top Pic)

Knocked down two more waves of TB’s and then saw that the guy who was raging was in a Jap De Grasse. He then freaked out again. (Bottom Pic)

P Edit

Consider on occasion, Russian Alliance, that some of your people, those whom you have defended here amid intense levels of your own stupidity, are not as princely as you may wish to portray them. But I know you know that. I know you know that piskopatxx is one of the most famous of the many RA BB6 AB’ers. I witness it myself frequently. And I know you know that this, among all the other things, is going to continue, because this path is the one you have chosen for your fleet. This is how your fleet is seen on days following last Saturday: replete with players who will scream that they are going to report you for AB because you aren’t AB’ing their way. So do us all a favor and stop being so fucking blind that you can’t even see when you’ve made such a catastrophic cock-up that your method of damage control is to attack under the guise of being the downtrodden victim. “You fag.” Good day to you, subman99.

We know where RA is, so where is the rest of the server? The answer to that is: unable or unwilling to crack the harbor Russian Alliance hides behind. The rest of the server either doesn’t try or has not been able to. And just this once, I’ll ask who would blame them. RA of old would play it fair, and as one of their members said earlier, not panic at a harbor lost. But not today. At all costs, that harbor must be held. And their ranking . . . never mind, because nobody cares. I’ll adapt the question jaydee85 has asked: If RA will not respect another fleet, who will give respect to RA?

After all this, RA still has a guy who flatly blames FG and FG alone. After all this, RA still has a guy who doesn’t understand the concepts or the effects of a de-sync. After all this, RA has a guy whose solution to the London mess is a fight to the death at Baltiysk. Who wants to tell me that RA’s solution solves everything? Who wants to tell me that RA gets it? Who wants to tell me that RA ever will?

Sylverxi brings up a point I’ve been giving great consideration to for a couple days now. Going back to July, Russian Alliance is the fleet that has twice bashed AA’s head in at Taranto only to not take the harbor (if this is inaccurate please somebody say so – I sleep during these shit harbor times). Why the hell would they bounce Flota Gallega in a for-fun attack when there is literally no defense? And the solution? Attack Baltiysk! Where sylverxi and I disagree is who takes the blame for the transgressions of maybe only a few. For me, the answer is simple. If you defend it, even if you deflect it – by this you are associated with it and should hang for it. As things are, capturing these questionable behaviors is no simple task; further, reporting them with an explanation is also a challenge, and having them seriously examined is the most difficult of all.

It is almost 48 hours before something officially official comes from RA. There appears to be every effort to get the harbor back to FG. Like every time dallion or nmac did it, the damage is already done (their “honor, honesty, integrity” junk is the same as your repeated “play fair and respect” garbage). Like every time cena did it, the idiots have already been loosed. Like every time the players are given reason to be pissed off, the community suffers an irrecoverable blow. Good day to you, Russian Alliance.

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13 Responses to Crap Is King

  1. jimmyeac says:

    Just a slight note; I’ve edited in pisko’s original BAMF app from our app evaluation archives.

  2. aide4nf says:

    Lost my shit when I re-viewed the screenies in his app to Bamf

    “shut up you English tea drinker”

    since when is drinking tea a poor life choice

  3. myg0t1 says:

    In other news…..BAMFs site traffic just exploded….lol

  4. John Hool says:

    WOOHOOOO I’M FAMOUS, however you did take one of my quotes a teeny weeny bit out of context… but I’m famous so who cares!

  5. jimmyeac says:

    “BAMF STANDS SIDE BY SIDE WITH ARMORED ANGELS AND THE CHINESE BRUTHAHOOD.”

    How ironic… we fought both of them yesterday :D

  6. crazycong says:

    AA and CHNB did not live up to the hype. I am moderately disappointed.

  7. This was glorious. Pisko is German I believe, not 100% sure. When I was in AA with him, he was a moron as well, no surprise to see things haven’t changed. Nice read.

  8. Well, I agree with you folks here on the RA shit, but that story now pales into insignificance compared to this one:

    http://navyfield.com/Community/Forum/List.aspx?category=C01

    Potential to become bigger than the hackshield saga.

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