An Open Letter to Vick11 – It is time for you to step down
January 26, 2013 25 Comments
This is a post he made on Navyfield.com on this thread. His responses are in bold here, and between ** in the thread.
Is it expecting too much for HA to have been worked on in 7 years?
When it is set against competing priorities at a higher level then perhaps Yes.
Is it expecting too much for the crashing issues to be fixed in 7 years?
Significant improvements made on that
Is it expecting too much to either create a new fleet leader forum or put in the old one that has been gone for 2 months?
Yes, a portion of the Fleet Leaders ruined the old one and SDE drew a very hard line under it. I have spent a lot of time convincing them to return any form of Fleet Leader area. They have agreed, but it is not as high a priority as the Amazon piece. We have advised this more than a couple of times now.
Is it expecting too much to have the event clarified beforehand?
The NFNA plan was for the event to start later with more of a gap between the Newsletter and the event start date. This was changed above NFNA. It happens
Is it expecting too much for the achievement system to be put in place when it was announced at the start of 2012?
Yes it is too much to expect as we have already answered it is not happening in this current game engine
Is it expecting too much to have TNF/SDE communicate?
We have been but as the above answers show you simply then try asking again in a different way
Is it expecting too much to have TNF/SDE listen to the community?
Numerous changes have been implemented through player suggestions and there is no reason why that will not continue
Is it expecting too much to have a TNF written guide to TNF policy posted on the website that has already been approved by SDE?
It will appear with the New Fleet Leader area as we have already said
Is it expecting too much to have serial cheats banned and stay banned?
In the right circumstances and when SDE believe the lesson has been properly learnt such that a second chance is appropriate then it might well be too much to expect that.
Is it expecting too much to have a public review on forum rules and server rules?
We said we will discuss this in the new Fleet Leader area and we will – again already answered.
Is it expecting too much to have community known updates when a rule is changed (unlike the ninja 3rd party forum rule?)
That rule has existed since I have been a Moderator so 6 years at least
Is it expecting too much to have moderators online ingame and on the forums? (Credit though, they are recruiting)
I am here and generally available in-game between 80 and 100 hours a month. The other Moderators are checked monthly for activity levels and appropriate action taken when the required standard is not being met. Other Moderators also answer in the forums as and when required. There is also the support ticket system for those times when a member of TeamNF is not instantly available.
Is it expecting too much to have TNF/SDE answering questions in threads like these, rather than ignoring them/leaving them to fester? Maybe a post saying “I don’t know the answers so I’ve passed these on to the dev’s” if they don’t know. If they do know and can’t say, say that. If they do know and can say, answer the damned questions.
Randy answers questions and provides updates when he has them.
Is it expecting too much for the dev’s to answer questions rather than the usual “We have passed this on to the dev’s” and then we hear nothing for years?
Yes it is too much to expect
Is it expecting too much to have proper support ticket answers and competant GM’s? I had one GM completely flat out deny to a fleetmate of mine that his account had been archived for inactivity; as soon as another GM looked at it – Randy – it was sorted ASAP, and turns out the other one had been wrong. This is just one incident from many.
GMs suffer from the human condition the same as the rest of us.
Is it expecting too much for SDE to have at least one GM online 24 hours a day? (as long as a competant GM is online with a direct line to the dev’s, obviously doesn’t have to be the same person 24 hours a day)
Yes that is way too much to expect
Is it expecting too much for SDE to have a dev available 24 hours a day; as above?
Yes too much
Is it expecting too much for SDE to be able to react to server crashes within the hour?
Depends when it happens, but certainly too much to expect that 24 hrs a day.
Is it expecting too much for there to be a clear avenue for appeals against Mod/GM decisions? There have been players that have been permabanned having not broken a rule or done anything wrong.
There is a clear appeals process.
Is it expecting too much for development on help for new players (missions/guides/better starter packs/better rolling system)? All of which have been asked for YEARS.
New Fleet Leader area as agreed at the meeting
Is it expecting too much for TNF to represent the community and keep the flow of communication between the GM’s/Dev’s and the community?
There is a lot already, but it is too much to expect TNF to blindly pass on inappropriate input or represent things that make little or no sense, or have been answered previously. Ie it is incumbent on TeamNF to apply a level of filter so that the ‘sensible/achievable/reasonable input does not get lost in the noise. As I am pretty sure you cannot see my inbox then really you are accusing a lack of internal comms from a pretty weak perspective.
Is it expecting too much for SDE to implement an export of rankings/HOF data, that a player has created on a 3rd party website in a small amount of time (but at expense to himself)?
We have already answered this
Is it expecting too much for old bugs to be fixed that have been broken for years?
Quite a lot of patch notes include bug fixes. Yes we would like every single one of those fixed this week please, but that is expecting too much
——————————————————————
Now, the thread was immediately locked after Vick11’s answers so there couldn’t be a response. Luckily for us, I can post it here:-
1) 7 years for work on HA is not good enough, I’m sure you will agree Randy.
2) Significant improvements haven’t actually been made. The Windows 7 patch didn’t change anything, and if anything, it has got worse over the years. I’m sure if you play the game, you will see the amount of players crashing.
3) Now Vick11 blames the fleet leaders for ruining the area. The fleet leaders were calling for moderation for the area, but it was largely ignored by Vick11. Blaming the fleet leaders is not only insulting but poor leadership. This does not change the fact that it was removed when fleet leaders asked for a change in the head mod position. Funny that people don’t believe that statement.
4) “It happens”. So our Head Mod is unconcerned about this and doesn’t care? Another insult to the community
5) Yet there is an achievement system during events on the website. Why not an achievement system on the website?
6) Vick11 clearly thinks the current communication is adequate; The community clearly disagree’s. Another sign that he has lost the trust and the connection to the community that the head mod job needs.
7) Answer as above.
8) Why on earth is the new TNF Public Guide not posted when it has been approved by SDE? We’ll be waiting until our graves if we are waiting for Vick11’s hated fleet leader area.
9) Make a thread stating that you believe that serial cheats should be unbanned. See how the community reacts.
10) Why wait until the mythical fleet leader area? Why not do it now? Why the constant delays?
11) That has not been a rule for 6 years. That clearly shows how much touch you have with the community. And no, I will not be closing the public part of the Jediforums on your whim.
12) So often there are moderators online in the /mod function that are AFK or flat out don’t respond. Or there is just no-one online. This is something the whole community has noticed. If you was ingame (which apparently you are), you would see this.
13) What about you? You yourself said that you are watching, just don’t respond most of the time. You are meant to be the head mod of NFNA. Yet you rarely answer questions, or you just give delayed answers. Or is answering the questions of your “lesser” community beneath you? The community doesn’t trust you anymore. We’ve had enough of the lies.
14) This is you saying it is too much to expect the dev’s to answer the communities questions. It is quite frank insulting that you feel the community should be ignored.
15) The human condition. Copy pasted answers or flat out wrong answers is “the human condition”? I’m glad you hold people to such high standards of customer service. Yet again, dismissing a huge issue as something that isn’t important. This is why you have lost the trust of the community.
16) You think it is too much to expect for SDE to have a paid employee (a GM) available 24 hours a day? I actually can’t believe you said that. Absolutely shocking.
17) As above. Just shocking that you are so dismissive to the needs of the game and community.
18) Completely incorrect answer again. If there is a server crash, it should be dealt with WITHIN the hour. That is what is needed for SDE to comply to the industry standard of 99.9% uptime. But clearly, you know better, right? Dismissive until the end.
19) No, there is not a clear appeals process. You permabanned a player for breaking a rule which was impossible to break, and not only that, he hadn’t even broken it. There was no way for him to appeal. You demanded a list from him, he sent it, then you ignored him for months. It took him writing a personal letter to SDE to a RL address of an employee to get the ball rolling on his unbanning; this was even when a GM said that he broke no rule but could not overturn your decision. After months, he was unbanned, with no sanction onto yourself. I think it is quite frankly disgusting that a mod would get away with this, let alone a head moderator. This is another reason why the community doesn’t trust you; many people fear a banning for speaking out with FACTS against your tyranny of this game. I’ll probably get banned for this blog post with your invented 3rd party forum rule, but it will only serve to prove the communities point further.
Maybe this appeals process is in the Public Mod manual that has been written and approved by SDE, but as you are delaying it until the mythical Fleet Leaders area we have been waiting for over 3 months for, we wouldn’t know would we?
20) No, it wasn’t “agreed” at the meeting. You delayed it until the fleet leaders area, which at that point, you promised would come before Christmas. 1 month on, and its been delayed to mid feb. Not good enough. The discussion needs to happen here and now. The fact that you are so intent on delaying important issues shows you aren’t up for the job.
21) And here is where the problem lies. You claim to be acting as a filter between the community and SDE, yet clearly nothing is getting through to them. You yourself admit here that you are the problem. Thank you for admitting that. The community has been unhappy with this for years, and you have chosen to stick to your line. Out of touch as always.
22) No, you haven’t answered this at all. You said it is on the to do list. It was done by a player in a small amount of time. Why haven’t the SDE professionals done this? Unless you are delaying things again.
23) 7 years of countless bugs. But i’m sure as you got your monster ship, your mod premium, your modded crews, your new nations, your new game modes that no-one plays etc etc, you don’t care that we have to put up with the same old bugs as we actually play the game. COD bugs. Client side hacks. Crew disappearing bugs. Zoom Bug. Planes going underwater. Infinite fuel planes. Border Humping planes/ships.
It is high time you was replaced as head mod. You do not represent the community, you do not help the community, you only subjugate them for your own benefit.
I am calling for the community to post their opinions in this status update by Randy:-
http://www.navyfield.com/Community/Forum/View.aspx?num=14602&searchtype=0&pagecount=0&searchvalue=&sort=5&category=C01&page1=1
It is time for a change. This constant refusal to put effort in to help new players and better the game is killing the game. I know there are those that don’t like me, but now is the time to ignore grudges and unite for the games sake. Lets work together for a better tomorrow. Lets show SDE that the community is what makes Navyfield. If needs be, we WILL protest ingame. Lets hope SDE see’s sense before this happens again:-
EDIT:-
Some responses from Vick11
I have been banned for posting this blog. Apparently that is against the rules. I guess I was expecting it from Vick11
About ljsevern
The NavyFIELD Blog 
While I don’t hate the guy, I believe he should step down; In the short time I started getting involved in the forums, I have seen many “failures” that Administrative staff should not make; As a “part of the community” He does the exact oppiste of what he should be doing. The Quote in the header is a good example, The refusal to use Teamspeak, when requested, at the fleet leader meeting, is another example. Someone “Representing the community” should at least use the method of communication the community wants. From what I hear, that meeting was a failure, and I’m quite glad I’m no longer a Fleet leader (for many reasons), But I would not of lasted through that. On top of that, Vicks lack of being able to take criticism is a very bad trait in leadership. As the fleet leader of Sea Raiders, I had plenty of judging me, Of course, SR was… quite bad… and We did have cena (aka I deserved it), But In my leadership experience, be it on NF, Other games, Random forums I start up, it is a very bad trait to have and chases people off. The sad thing is, Nothing will happen, What we have is a Dictatorship basically, No way to remove him unless the whole community revolted, and that won’t happen. Other issue is, In my opinion, The community lacks people who could replace him, In personnel opinion, Alexcaboose or Lj himself would be a good fit, But in the case of it, Both will have their fair share of haters.
tl;dc
Mindless Rant about vick not living up to his duties.
Sorry for spelling/grammar mistakes, On my phone.
The problem is due the “extremly pyramidal structure” of TNF in last years i don’t think there is noone currently in TNF with the enough energy, seriousness, and will of doing things well for taking the Head Mod position.
Personally, i think GMs/TNFs have the same problem with SDE. Lack of communication. It’s the same problem you see when you send a ticket the reply has nothing to see about what you asked or even the answer is a copy & paste answer. What adjective you will use for describe that? Lazyness? Incompetence? Remembering what was talking in the meeting, it’s quite possible GMs/TNFs have the same problem when they “send a ticket” to SDE, so, in many ocasions TNFs/GMs can just transmit that incompetence.
It’s highly anyoning suggesting very good things for game, many of them quite (supossedly) easy things and not being given proper answers. They don’t realize that are the players the ones who better know the game and the ones who can tell them how to use the few resources they have on the game in a more effective way, not telling them “what to do” or how to run their own game but give what i consider they are “valuable advices”.
What we also have to see Lj is SDE doesn’t have a lot of resources put into the game. We have to be aware of that. We can’t ask them “everything” because that is not possible. For more times you post a list of they things they should fix they will not do it, basically, because they can’t. But we are on our right of asking proper and direct answers about what t
About Vick what we see ends in Vick, we have no idea about what he does or what he doesn’t. About if he really fights for the interests of the community, is active, well-informed and always pushing SDE and asking for answers to player’s suggestions, actually represent the community or is just “leeching”. We have no way to know that, and well, the guy is not exactly the most comunicative person in the world, specially if there are past issues around.
Also certain things that happened in last year didn’t exactly help to have a better “feeling” and ended in the disasterful closing of Fleet Leader Area and well, i think certain attitudes or comments with certain emmm, “background” of past issues are not the best way for reaching understanding and communication with the Chief Mod of the game.
About Randy, he is giving us the updates, but as Vick said, sometimes there is nothing to update. See last Randy update, half of the things he is saying are repeated things we already new. At least he is now showing his tittle of “community manager”.
My idea Lj was always having a Fleet Leader Forums with a good enviroment where TNFs (because TNFs also exists right? or it’s TNF=Vick and the rest are just minions without their own opinions? Looks like some players are more worried about the game than the TNF people) and Fleet Leaders could great a “group of job” and have EASY talks (without resorting to personal attacks or intimidation on TNFs or players) about the direction of the game BASED ON INFORMATION about what SDE wants, information about what they can do and they can’t do and give our valuable advice to them, receiving proper answers and give advice based in those proper answers, but obviously all in a good enviroment of education and respect.
I honestly think that is the way, making Vick and TNF to connect with (all) the community rather than trying unsuccesfully again and again to make Vick to step down, that only brought bad things Lj and make things worse, you have to see it. Apart, that’s impossible, first because there is noone in TNF able to “stepping forward” into what is a very uncomfortable position, and second because that kind of decision is out of our hands since SDE & GMs trust in Vick.
That’s my honest point of view on the issue.
No Cracko, the only way to get this over with is Vick11 stepping down and becoming a regular player.
As for an alternative head mod – there should be a vote presented to the whole player base on Navyfield.com with candidates presented from multiply fleets with a member base of 70+ i.e significant fleets.
The headmod represent the community and should be nominated by the community.
Aragorn1st
I agree with Aragorn about having the head mod voted into “office” by the community, but they would need to advertise SEVERAL WEEKS BEFORE that the poll is going up on the forums. They need to send BBS messages in-game to notify any and all players about the poll and to visit the forums for the vote, and try to give as much advance warning as possible.
@Lj Just saw your 3+ months ban, no idea about what you posted, but that’s a quite big ban.
“I honestly think that is the way, making Vick and TNF to connect with (all) the community rather than trying unsuccesfully again and again to make Vick to step down, that only brought bad things Lj and make things worse, you have to see it”
That was i was trying to explain.
While i agree with most of your points and most of your targets, i completly disagree with your methods.
@Cracko
For the most part, I actually agree with you. I would love for Vick to be the one to connect with the community, because having another drama involving a head mod (like Greenglade) isn’t good for the game. However, Vick has shown time and time against he doesn’t want to communicate with the community. I’ve tried time and time again to work with him, but his response to my “Is it too much to expect” just shows that he doesn’t care.
I really wish I didn’t have to campaign for a head mod to be removed, but in my opinion, it is the last thing that can be done to save the game. We really need a head mod that cares, that puts the time in, that engages with the community. Someone that considers himself one with the community, not above the community.
I got my 3 month ban for posting this blog post up and quoting his previous posts. He cited a number of various forum rules that are intentionally vague and there to protect moderators from constructive criticism; the same rules I wanted a discussion about, and he is delaying that discussion until the fleet leader forum that we all know he doesn’t want and is delaying things, in a hope that we forget about the issues. This is a classic Vick11 move to try and get the heat to die down; notice how he said he won’t be here for a few days.
Its not often we are on the same page Cracko, and we both seem to agree on the issues; We just seem to disagree on if Vick can do the job. I just don’t think Vick is the man for the job anymore for the above reasons.
And the fact that he removed the fleet leader forums (rather than moderate it), and has started banning multiple players for criticising him proves the point further. He claims there is a system for moderator complaints; well, this also shows there isn’t.
Anyways, I thank you for your post Cracko, and appreciate your opinion. I hope you continue posting more like this.
Cracko, you cant make one melon and one banana into a cucumber, its just don’t happen!
What I mean is that you cant take Vick11 that don’t really want to do anything but enjoy the benefits of his chair and SDE in the other hand that are enjoying that there is no one to ring bells for them and make them unite. you have to break the ice here. someone has to go home, and since we cant make SDE go home cause without SDE there isn’t Navyfield – Vick11 is the guy to point your fingers at. its been proven that the guy is inaccessible at any level and you only get laconic answers from him for trivial questions…
He has to go, someone else that is nominated by the actual community should take his place and hopefully represent us better…
You should ask him what exactly the “Various forum rule breaches” are; see if you even get a response beyond “lol im mod stfu”. NF2 beta starts in a few days, it’ll be interested to see what happens from here
Sad thing is, I doubht anything will Happen, SDE has let vick get away with Obvious power abuses, The only thing I can think would happen is if we could show the Game Mods We don’t want him, in suffiecent numbers, The major problem is, Lack of GM interaction, If say 3 major fleets instructed their members to send in support tickets I think we might see something happen (Through Payment section – Which goes strait to GM’s; While vick can see it, they will see it aswell). Still, Its not just vick we’re dealing with, The GM’s (Minus randy to an extent) have refused to show interest in the community; They might just be keeping vick as he doesn’t nag them to.
Sorry for bad grammar; Using Phone.
At this point I am left to wondering if you enjoy taunting the TNF moderator community. Sure your claiming to be standing up for the community but your contempt towards vick11 is begging the question if you have such a negative view of this individual and the game itself, why do you continue to support the game and the company?
I can assure you LJ is not alone, vick is hate by a good percent of the community
Taunting? No. Speaking the truth and wanting the best for the game? Yes. I will gladly compliment moderators when they have done a good job. Want me to name examples in which I have done so? I can name a number over the years.
Why do I have such a negative view of Vick11? The post says it all. I don’t feel he holds the role for the games and the communities benefit. I feel he is holding the role for his own benefit. He bans players he doesn’t like for made up reasons and/or vague rules; He even permabanned and IP banned a player ingame for breaking a rule that was impossible to break (as I detailed in my original post).
Why do I continue to support the game? I enjoy the game, and i’ve always said it has the potential to be one of the best out there if it is managed right.
I do wonder if you have even read the post though. Do you agree with what Vick11 thinks is too much to expect? The community deserves better. Do you remember his test team he created under the guise of Fresh Eyes, which ruined the CV balance, implemented arguably the worst balanced content in years (T5 scouts), implemented some terrible changes and became a complete and utter failure? Do you remember the rules for his SDE fleet war, which he lumbered the other TNF members with and left them to try and save the failure of it? Credit to those that refereed and helped run it, they did their best, but again it was lumbered with cheating and terrible rules. Remember the GNGWC tournaments? None have been held under his tenure as head mod. Remember Hackshield? He never mentioned it to the community and look how long it took SDE to do something about it. Now, surely the head of TNF should have been communicating what an utter disaster it was and how players were leaving in droves? Do we trust that he did that? Given at how, when SDE are directly involved, things do tend to get done, I don’t think he did. Remember when Vick deleted the fleet leader area when a majority of fleet leaders wanted him to either step down or actually do some work? Remember when he went AFK for 3 weeks during the winter event that was plagued with problems?
The issue is, he has absolutely no-one to keep him in check. Its impossible to go direct to SDE above him. I’ve had my tickets about him flat out deleted. Posts quoting him are deleted on the forums. If he honestly thinks he is doing a good job for the community, then why is he hiding and banning so many people?
I’ll just say this; Imagine if 50 people opened normal rooms in both area’s with the name “Protest against Vick11”. Do you think Vick will report this to SDE, or just ban everyone and pretend nothing happened?
There needs to be some sort of oversight. And the community needs to stand up for themselves. Which they are doing.
It’s not about if he is or isn’t the man for job. It’s the man who is there.
The fact he got quite close to SDE and GMs isn’t necessarily bad, he has been a lot of years there, knows the GM, knows the system and i don’t think he is so inactive as people tend to think. There are a lot of things players can’t (and shouldn’t) see for obvious reasons since there should be a line between TNFs and players. I would like to know the opinion of TNF members since they are the ones how know this better and their opinion is not based only in the words of Vick in forums, it’s based on the complete, overall job he does for the game.
The bad fact is he lost contact with the community, the FLFs were an example of that, his duty should have been a leader of the community and moderate them properly, he didn’t do that, instead of that he let them to degenerate and die. Not all was his fault, but a good part was, he should had acted like a leader of the community and make those forums work. Also there is the problem he completly monopolizes and centralizes the output of information from TNF, since it’s quite rare to see other mods talking anything.
The out of scale bans he gives are also well-known, he never bans, never bans, but he has a “karma counter” on each player and when you reach the limit you receive a hard ban like happened to you. It happened with others too, but the fact of always remembering his bannings again and again and mixing it with in game issues is not quite productive for reaching understanding. Because, let’s be fair, certain sector of the community hasn’t been an example about trying to connect with Vick neither.
About his vague responses we tend to think he doesn’t care about the game and/or he has no interest on comunicating with the community, but maybe it’s also because he receives vague answers too. Maybe there are “korean Vicks” too. Neither i have seen him defending himself saying it’s SDE fault when he could say it a good number of times, he just acts like a crap shield for SDE. It’s obvious he does a good work for SDE … Pretty sad seeing the Chief Mod of the game doing that nasty task … and what is the work he does for us? Nothing? We just can’t see if he is so passive with GMs/SDE as he is with the community. Are TNFs the only ones who can see it.
Of course i would like a better mod more close to the community, a real leader of the community, but i also want a guy with experience there that knows the system, know the GMs and know how to deal with SDE. BOTH parts are essential for a good Chief Mod, not only the part “we” see. Vick, even with all his personal and proffesional defects, has the 2nd part, and that’s equal or more important than the 1st one.
Since we want a better head mod and there is noone around in TNF able to step forward the only option we have is making Vick a better a Chief Mod. Randy and Vick joined with us in the meeting, that was a sign they understand they have a responsability to us, they gave answers about why things are like they are (but it looks like not everyone could read between lines) and there was a significant improvement on their comunications and answers in forums from both. Even Randy is giving so many updates that he has to repeat stuff (from giving 1 update to each 3 months to 3 updates at a month, lol). Also the future FLFs are near too and this time they are going to work and we could finally have a “group of work” there without the noise of main forums.
I think the line of the community should be looking for connecting with Vick, building in quite harder than destroying but it also gives better results at medium term. I think people wanting to act as community leaders should have the vission for seeing it, (seeing the “big picture” as english speakers say), instead winding up people and themselves and getting dragged in aggresive campaings (sometimes also mixing personal issues on them) that only resulted in bad things for the whole of the community and everyone looses.
You loose Lj because you got a 3 month ban and Vick of course will not resign because he thinks (we can’t know if it’s true or not) he is making a good job for the game and he doesn’t have to justify himself, Vick looses because a sector of the community got angry with him, the ones who want a productive dialogue and disclosure with Vick also loose for obvious reasons. The community looses. The game looses. Everyone looses. Who wins here? Noone wins. Even Vick resigning wouldn’t necessarily mean a “win” for the game.
Things are not black or white, there is a full scale of grey colors between black and white.
Cracko, we have tried connecting with Vick for years. He just doesn’t want to know. He feels that the community is beneath him.
I’ve tried everything. He ignores the community. He won’t change. I wish you luck in your attempt to change him, but after years of him being in TNF, he has always been like this. Remember his words from the fleet leader forums; “Nothing you need concern yourself with”.
I honestly completely expected the ban. It was a likely outcome from spearheading the campaign. He’s done this countless times to countless people. And its yet more proof that he is biased and abusing his power.
All I have done is quote his posts, and post responses to his posts, and apparently that is an ban for 3 months; Yet, i’ve had people flat out flaming me go unpunished.
@Cracko.. vick wins!
Seriously though, something needs done, and I’ll help out however possible
The important thing is that people make their feelings known. People need to think with their own minds, read his posts, look at the screenshots of his actions, look at the history of his TNF actions. The community needs to post on the forums, chat about it ingame.
There is nothing in the rules that bans advertising this blog ingame or on Navyfield.com. Unless Vick decides to change it because of this exact issue.
If you advertise it ingame (not spamming; just a quick typed message once per battleroom after the start), it raises awareness of an important issue.
His replies are so defensive, so angry, so dismissive in nature, that my jaw just dropped.
Expecting a server crash expecting to be fixed within the hour is too much? This is a bleedin’ online game! If you’re running a minecraft server and you’re at work when it happens, sure. But not a freaking game with thousands of players!
Twisting the tales, blaming everyone other than TNF/SDE and apparently banning Lukas shows the psychological capacity of a 7-year old, holding his hands to his ears and yelling “LALALALALALALALA”.
This is a grave conduct of moderating; any other game would get stamped into the ground, but for years TNF (Barring good and helpful members, of course) have hidden behind the fact that SDE is a leaking basket somewhere in the Korean sea.
Instead of standing with the players and demanding answers and change, they form the palace guard for an out-of-touch king, who’s subjects yell at the gates are being blocked out by the soothing voice of the guard’s captain, Vick.
Vick has been on a powertrip for years now; his position SHOULD be, above anything else, be a popularity contest. He is responsible for everything (not ‘human nature’) that’s wrong with the game, because he HIMSELF created that position. I vote for a poll; let the players decide who they want to have as Head.
Well as I am still serving a Perma ban (for a Screenshot on Facebook, where I made insulting and threatening comments to another player, BUT NEVER followed through on) and the player has since requested his complaint be withdrawn to hear an answer from GMs saying “We are happy to unban you but we can not over rule Vick, the final decision lays on him” is outrageous, especially when time and time again he has proven he is incompetent and biased, a fact even several of his own moderator team admit, yet tell him yourself and you will receive a ban (iv had 4 perma bans for that exact reason, well either that or telling him he is wrong).
He enjoys his power far too much so lets be honest he is never going to step down, but the GMs and those higher up in SDE NEED to realise what damage vick is causing to a playerbase that is limited in size and shrinking on a daily basis.
Cena
I really do not understand this vendetta against Vick right now. I actually consider doing stuff like posting a link to this on Facebook, exactly where Vick has tried to improve his ability to communicate with the community, is pretty underhanded. You claim he abuses his power. I’m sure posting stuff like this everywhere when I’ve only seen between 5-10 people say they hate vick
As for how he reacts to being spoken to by the community, I posted something directly at vick for the first time ever last week. This provoked a response whereby he made the above mentioned effort to involve the community more in what is going on. I emphasised more on the use of twitter and he began so say he would consider that too. I thought this looked like some form of progress. He was then criticised in such a pedantic way that I wouldn’t be surprised if he just stopped bothering right there. But he definitely didn’t seem to me to consider himself above me or unwilling to take on my suggestion. His responses to the above questions all seemed perfectly reasonable imo and to me they suggest he doesn’t hold as much influence with SDE as is necessary.
As for this whole ‘what the community expects’ thing, I genuinely do not see what is wrong with most of his replies. He is the head mod. Not a Dev, not working in Korea with SDE, none of that. If SDE doesn’t consider his position to be of one that allows the community’s voice to carry enough weight then THAT is the problem, not Vick. It is them we should be petitioning towards. Change the head mod as many times as you like, that doesn’t mean that SDE will start trying to fix HAs or get someone to rearrange the forums when there is sellable stuff to be developed and advertising to be done. It is their priorities that impairs the state of NF as it is right now. You know full well that SDE has stubbornly refused to hear the suggestions of the community, infact even when the community has approached them with the solutions to the problems, like fixed game code, they’ve still declined it. Yet you think that vick suffering from this same stubbornness is his fault and not something that will afflict the next head mod aswell?
I can just see it. Vick, or whoever the head mod is, setting up 5 lines of communication with the community. Liked by many, posting on the forums, active on TS, available on messenger, maintaining twitter and Facebook and a blog. All telling the community that SDE has decided that being able to sell the game through amazon is more important than fixing HAs or improving server stability and capacity. Who would you blame then?
Probably still the head mod. If the new head mod was voted in instead of being appointed, I think I would quit NF. Head mod isn’t a popularity contest, it’s a professional position to get shit done. And if getting him to do anything is so hard, why did he respond to my simple suggestion?
As for the situation right now, you DO expect too much. SDE is clearly hell bent on sorting this amazon crap right now that they’re not going to fix anything else right now. I wouldn’t expect much from them until they’ve fixed that either. We’re going to end up with no head mod at all, it wouldn’t surprise me if vick stepped down and SDE wouldn’t allow a replacement for a position the community considered was ‘a waste of time’.
Fact of the matter is, Vick hasn’t completed any action since the 1st December meeting (Only Randy has). Its been over 60 days later. He only started posting on facebook after the criticism I put towards him after his post admitting he thinks the community expects too much. You are welcome. Just like he only put the original fleet leader forum on because I hosted one on ONF. You are welcome. If he “does” things, write a list of his achievements under his tenure as head mod. Write a list of the actions he has completed since the 1st December fleet leader meeting.
Some of his answers in that post are just crazy; He doesn’t think server crashes should be dealt with in the hour, he doesn’t think that there should be a GM/Dev available 24 hours a day. He will always delay actions; “he’ll consider” or “there are other priorities”. How long does it take to create a new forum section? How long does it take to create a better stats/ranking system? How long does it take to post the TNF Mod manual to the website? How long does it take to make a thread for idea’s regarding the new player experience? How long does it take to put a thread up regarding HA and what people want to see from it? How long does it take to have some sort of Guide making competition?
I agree it shouldn’t be voted in, it should be SDE appointed; however, there should be a player voted team that, while not having any ban power, has a direct line to SDE rather like the CSM in Eve-Online.
Furthermore; if SDE has their priorities wrong, Vick is meant to tell them the community is unhappy. Did he do this with Hackshield? Did he do this with the SDE fleet war he created? Did he do this last event?
And 5-10 people? Far more than that. He’s been hiding posts and banning people. I suggest you check 3rd party forums. The majority of the fleet leaders were against him when we were on Teamspeak during the fleet leader meeting (Vick refused to get on because he doesn’t like it). The majority think his moderation of the Fleet Leader Forums were a failure, and asked for his resignation (which Vick then deleted the fleet leader forums).
Its nice that someone is positive about him, however, I implore you to read the facts, look at his posts, look at the screenshots, and look at his whole tenure not just as Head Mod, but also before that. To coin a quote;
First he came for Rehor,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t Rehor.
Then he came for ljsevern,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t ljsevern.
Then he came for the Veteran players,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a veteran player.
Then he came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
I have no followed his actions quite so closely as the most active members of the community, so I cannot confess to know exactly what has or hasnt been achieved during his tenure.
His replies are not crazy, he is not a Dev. He doesnt think crashes should be dealt with in the hour? Where does he say that? He didn’t share his opinion on that point, he stated that expecting that to be the case wasn’t to be expected. You’ve no idea of his opinion on that matter from the direct quote above. He doesn’t think there should be a GM available 24 hours a day? Again, where does he say that? He said not to expect it. If you consider that the head mod of TNF is a voluntary, player suggested, part time position, what on earth makes you think that SDE would provide 24 hour assistance? Imagine 8 hours shifts every day, that’s 3 people if you employ them for 8 hours a day for every day of the week, even more if they don’t work every day. In my experience that sort of support requires a team of at least 15. Thats quite a request for a part-time position to ask of a company that is most likely pretty small already (I estimate a development team of between 15-60) and operates from Korea. He did not share his opinion on this matter, he factually answered your question of wether to expect it or not. The answer was NO. Yet you have a problem with him personally for that.
How long DOES it take to create a forum section? I don’t know. Who’s responsible for actually doing that? A representative or the actual SDE employees responsible for the website’s design? Same for the ranking system, same for the mod manual. I’ve actually no clue on this new player experience, but while it certainly needs something done about it, what makes you think that SDE actually will? They seem to me to be very undermanned and have very few not particularly specialised employees dedicated to the development of NF and that causes the NF community to suffer.
So, like CSMs do you mean a team of representatives instead of JUST Vick? That does not sound like a bad idea to me, and actually support my main point which is that SDE are the one’s who need to listen, not Vick. I don’t think he has failed in that area, relative to what I would personally expect of him.
If SDE has their priorities wrong, its up to Vick to set them straight… unless their priorities don’t include listening to Vick and believing what he says changes the priority of issues. Who’s more to blame for that, SDE or our representative?
If he has been banning the opinions of so many, why do I see the same 5-6 peoples replies persisting. Must just be coincidence I’m sure. That said, I have also seen as many people at least state that people cut him some slack, while some others even support him.
The fleet leader forum and meeting situation is not one I am familiar with. I always find clans and guilds and whatnot to be more drama than I like and I avoid such immaterial politics. That said, I will be becoming more familiar with that side of the community very soon because I’m making an effort to do so. If he has disappointed that section of the community in such as way as you describe then that atleast is immature behaviour, I will grant you that.
However, from the posts you quote and what else I have seen, I do not understand why he attracts as much hatred as he does. He does not even seem particularly dismissive to me. Alot of his responses to your expections read as factual and honest replies, not careless or dismissive.
You want to do something with those answers? Maybe consider that he represents SDE for the community aswell. I really believe that if we want those answers to change then we have to get Vick to tell that to SDE, it’s not Vick that needs convincing. He is a member of our community aswell and he has the position he has for a reason, for better or worse right now.
I think the criticism he receives now is astounding, and he is just a simple man the same as us. I believe the community can change their approach to communicating with him to change his approach to communicating with SDE by working together to get SDEs attention. But bottom line, imo, is; I think the fault is SDEs, and no amount of effort from the community may change their priorities. I think even if Vick can appease all these haters, our combined efforts still fall on deaf ears.
I do not approve of dissent, I believe in a human beings ability to get along with each other to resolve problems. Not to undermine or dictate. But your actions may well bring an end to Vicks influence in both NFNA and SDE, wether that is the right decision or not. I hope it does not silence any more of the communities voice.
Just please remember, it is as much SDEs responsibility to listen as it is Vicks duty to speak. I am not confident enough in where the problem lies to support what you’re doing.
@Benser
“However, from the posts you quote and what else I have seen, I do not understand why he attracts as much hatred as he does.”
“Just please remember, it is as much SDEs responsibility to listen as it is Vicks duty to speak. I am not confident enough in where the problem lies to support what you’re doing.”
Sure, that’s what any rational player would think.
This is due to in the past certain sector of the community had a lot influence inside TNF, and when i say a lot it’s really a lot. Vick made TNF more impartial and this sector of the community got their influence hardly reduced and a more defined line was marked separating the TNFs from the rest of players. There are no “pocket mods” now, but in the past there were a lot of them.
Since that happened they never stopped with the political campaign of taking him down, campaign that got worse the last year with the ban of Rehor and with other issues. Campaign that took advantange of the general discontent of the community about SDE not listening trying to direct that hate personally to Vick, campaign that converted the FLFs in crap, ended with its deletion and made ALL us to loose. Campaign that even got followed after the obvious attempts about Vick and Randy giving us more news, information and updates.
Vick is not a GM and people doen’t get that small difference. A Head Mod is not a GM, is a mod. He can’t “do” things, the only things he can “do” are the bans. Vick is in a key position for the game representing us to SDE and representing SDE to us. Vick carries our suggestions (he says a fair bit are communicated to SDE and i believe him) to SDE and carries SDE responses to us, he knows the people, knows the system, know the GMs and just because he doesn’t say a word about the job he does that doens’t mean he does nothing, that’s not truth.
What more you can expect from him? I expect from him to explain more clearly the issues and have direct talks about them and for that the place are the FLFs, to make a combined group of job there in a mature enviroment with a small group of people combined with TNFs, where Vick and the rest of the team can have more clear talks about the game and what transmit to GMs, also some more clear answers (SDE don’t want to do it DUE to reason X), currently is IMPOSSIBLE to do that in GD forums but FLFs were doomed due too to those spyrals of crap.
These spyrals of crap brought nothing good for game. Nothing. Absolutlely nothing. They ruined the FLFs and make ourselves as a community to look to GMs to a pack of morons and inmature people who doesn’t deserve to be listened, probably they damaged also the image of Vick to the GMs being uncapable of make those forums work, they made people get banned feeding the cycle of hate and also make Vick more closed, defensive and yes, arrogant too to this sector of the community and by extension to the rest of players. It’s highly stupid to keep on with this kind of campaigns, SDE wouldn’t hear us louder for keeping on with this on Vick, you are just making his job harder.
Even in the scenario of Vick resigning i have hard doubts about that would mean a “win” for the game. GMs would keep be being the same and SDE would keep being the same and we would have lost a valuable person for the game with no warranties at all about the one after him would make a better job dealing with SDE (because Vicks has experience, know the people, know the GMs and know the system).
I would like to ask to certain sector of the community a bit of matureness and responsability, at least the leaders/representatives of it should have common sense, reflexionate and make autocritic about if what they are doing is benefiting the game and the community.
Hello guys this will be short,from what I can see in our game and we all really need to accept this is that SDE is not making a huge amount of money from us at the moment.I think most of the free to play games now only gets income from 30% of the player population,maybe lower for NF,paying for 24/7 customer service and highly competent game developers would be very costly.So even if TNF emails or even calls SDE for fixes and improvements everyday but SDE sees that the cost would be greater than their income or does not have the resources to spend, they would just order TNF to do damage control.
If you looked at the amount people spent in the winter event for the puzzle competition, you would see they made boatloads of money.
@dyepri
I do not think you or SDE realizes the potential this game had and *might* still have. If SDE/TNF work towards improving player enjoyment, the game would sustain player activity, and keep new players within the game. In the end/long-run, more active players = more money. Instead of this more sensical business model, SDE/TNF thinks it’s better to go against community interests and force-feed unstable content that will ultimately fail.